SELLING IN THE CLOUD PODCAST

Daniel Day, VP of Marketing at Rollbar, on Accelerating Revenue Generation with Data-Driven ABM

In this episode, we're joined by Daniel Day, VP of Marketing at Rollbar – a software company that provides real-time error tracking and debugging tools for developers.

Prior to Rollbar, Daniel held roles in demand generation at Scale AI and was Snowflake's first account-based marketer. Today, he joins Sarah and Michael for a discussion on how cloud revenue leaders can deliver value through a data-driven account-based marketing (ABM) strategy.


Show Notes

On embracing the power of data in ABM

"Having an opinion [that originates] from actionable analysis that we've done on our market allows us to see not only which companies we're going to focus on from an enterprise standpoint, but ties our growth marketing and our growth function very tightly to our account-based strategy." (10:12)

"One of the scariest things about being a marketer is having an opinion. But you have to be able to put the stake in the ground and say, for better or worse, this is where we're starting off." (21:05)

"Ask for forgiveness instead of asking for permission. I hear all the time 'this isn't my responsibility' or 'this isn't my purview' or 'our company's not set up that way'. Start educating yourself, sign up, take a trial, do whatever you can to educate yourself about the data so you can deliver as much value as you can." (28:21)

On the significance of lead disqualification

"If we have the confidence and data insights to be able to focus our activities, we're going to win more often than not." (22:43)

"[Sales] feedback helps us be better marketers, refine our insights, and work with our data partners to continue to improve things." (22:58)

On closing the gaps between sales and marketing

"[Data] gives you such a clear insight to be able to bifurcate and segment in a way that was not possible before. It helps to cross that chasm between marketing and sales where marketing stops being order takers and starts being data partners." (17:58)

"It was never the account-based marketing team or the demand generation team that was finding the most immense value in what we were doing. It was our sales counterparts." (28:54)

Full Transcript

Michael Pollack [00:00:10] Hello, everyone, and welcome to Selling in the Cloud, a podcast about the business of cloud sales and marketing, brought to you by Intricately – the authoritative source of digital product adoption, usage, and spend data for sales and marketing teams. I'm Michael Pollack and I'm here with Sarah E. Brown. And we are your co-hosts.

Michael Pollack [00:00:39] Sarah, welcome to the show.

Sarah E. Brown [00:00:40] Mike, it's fantastic to be here today with you.

Michael Pollack [00:00:43] Sarah, in this episode, we're speaking with a friend, a customer, a thought leader in the space, a renowned sneakerhead and all around just unique human being who we tremendously appreciate: Mr. Daniel Day, VP of Marketing at Rollbar.

Sarah E. Brown [00:00:58] Looking forward to chatting with Daniel. Shall we get to it?

Michael Pollack [00:01:01] Let's do it. Daniel, welcome to the show.

Daniel Day [00:01:04] Thanks for having me. It's really nice to be invited.

Sarah E. Brown [00:01:06] Tell us a bit about your background and a brief history of how you got to where you are today as Rollbar's Vice President of Marketing.

Daniel Day [00:01:13] I think substantively, my story starts a few years ago when I was reached out to and joined Snowflake as our first account-based marketer. I think the company was just a little over one hundred people at the time, and I was marketer number eight or nine and kind of cut my chops there. Got really involved in data and analytics and partnered closely with my sales team and sales leaders. Fast forward a bit. It blew up and I had a team of nine or 10 global account-based marketers working hand-in-hand with salespeople to bring data and insights and analytics to bear the B2B go-to-market, turned that foray into joining Scale AI in San Francisco as their first Vice President of Demand Generation, spent a little bit a time bringing analytics and insights to the enterprise AI space. And a buddy of mine from Snowflake reached out. He took the VP of Sales job at Rollbar. He and I worked really closely together for two and a half years at Snowflake and saw tremendous value in being account-based and bringing, like I said, analytics and insights and data to bear on B2B go-to-market. So they asked me what I wanted to do. I said, I want to run marketing. And they said, OK, sure. So it's been, what, 12 months that I've been able to by now as the Vice President of Marketing, trying to build out enterprise, go-to-market with the team there.

Michael Pollack [00:02:42] So, Daniel, I know you well. I've worked with you at Snowflake. I can attest that you are a subject matter expert, a luminary, a thought leader in the ABM space, on many other things as well. Also a sneakerhead. We could have that for another podcast, another day. But for our audience who may not be familiar with Rollbar, can you give a brief snippet on what Rollbar does, why it's so important and kind of the impact Rollbar makes for its customers?

Daniel Day [00:03:10] Sure. So Rollbar's mission is to help developers build software quickly and painlessly. So since Rollbar was instituted, our mission and our focus is to try to help developers the best we can. So we're very engineering focused, very developer specific. Our space is what we would call continuous code improvement. So we're trying to look beyond monitoring for errors or observability within software applications and actually help software developers do what they do best, which is build and write code, bring new features and products to market. So we help them to do that by being continuously predictive, continuously proactive and continuously learning and just helping them to build code more quickly, faster and bring new features to market. So it's important because we find, you know, software developers and software engineers spend upwards of twenty five to fifty percent of their time every week searching for software issues and errors in their code. And it's really important that they find those things before their customers find them. So it can be, you know, customer satisfaction issues or lost revenue if their application isn't behaving as they expected. So really cool to be in this space where we're so focused on helping engineers to make their lives better and to help them focus on writing new code and bringing new features to market, but also understanding that it has such tremendous business value and impact on customers when things don't go as expected.

Michael Pollack [00:04:46] I'm curious to ask a follow up there. So on the topic of Rollbar, we build a lot of software in our business, so I understand the importance of engineering productivity or even product quality. Right. That's a huge deal. I'm curious for our audience... you look at the shift in the past, maybe it's the half decade of really marketing to developers of developers really starting to be able to choose their own tools, the rise of businesses like Rollbar and Datadog and all these technologies where, again, IT's not making the decision – a developer is. I'm curious for you to talk just as a marketer about how it changes your viewpoint or your strategies when you're really trying to market to developers rather than, say, a business buyer.

Daniel Day [00:05:27] Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, we have to spend time supporting and marketing directly to both the develope and the business buyers, so it's a unique challenge, especially for Rollbar, where the company is developer focused. They've grown up on the developer. The developer has been able to self-serve Rollbar for as long as I can remember. And at the same time, trying to build an enterprise go-to-market strategy. And so it's how we built the team and how we work with the product team and how we try to understand the key challenges that the developer is facing in the voice of the developer and what some of those key things that they're facing. And so it's a balance to try to understand where to put resources from marketing specifically to the developer, finding where they live, where they get their information, how they speak, how they talk, what's important to them, and then still being beholden to an enterprise sales organization and understanding the business value of what we do. So it's a juggling act, a balancing act to do both of those things at the same time.

Sarah E. Brown [00:06:39] Yeah, you mentioned juggling acts. I'm curious to dig into the challenges in selling to your current target market and and how you think about data as you're building out Rollbar's go-to-market programs.

Daniel Day [00:06:50] Yeah, I mean, when the company has been wildly successful on a self-service model for the longest time and our users and buyers are engineers, some of the world's most sophisticated software engineering disciplines and companies that are renowned for their applications use Rollbar to be able to deploy frequently with confidence. But oftentimes you'll try to speak to that developer, that group of engineers that utilizing the tool and they know how it makes their daily life better and they know that it helps them to bring their product to market more quickly and more confidently. But they're not always aware of the impact that it's actually having on their organization. And so trying to understand what the business value of being able to deploy more frequently or the business value of being able to deploy more confidently or to be able to do things like canary releases or product feature releases without affecting your entire customer base. Trying to understand what that actually means to these businesses and trying to tie those things together, you know, means that we have to get deeper and wider within the organization. And so that's been a challenge to try to bridge those two things in a very kind of succinct manner. If you want to be an enterprise company and you want to still very much so not lose your focus on the developer and the tremendous value that you bring to development teams as well, yeah, you have to try to juggle things a bit.

Michael Pollack [00:08:27] I'm curious to unpack something from your history and something you alluded to in this conversation, which is you were part of the team at Snowflake that obviously had enormous success with the growth of their market and an ABM strategy that I got the privilege to kind of witness firsthand that I think was both innovative and exponentially successful. With your background as an ABM marketer moving into Rollbar, do you utilize a lot of that ABM muscle and can you talk about that?

Daniel Day [00:08:57] Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of the moment, that kind of inflection point that we had as an organization was honestly having a conversation with every developers, every developer team that signs up for Rollbar and uses our service. Are they created equally? And if you're talking about strictly revenue, then the answer is no, they're not created equally. Right? And so at this inflection point in our organization, we had a moment of clarity where we agreed that's not the case. Enterprise companies that utilize our tool don't use our tool in the same way or the same level as the hobbyist engineer developer would utilize us. Right. And so as we've been building out enterprise, go-to-market and enterprise sales and marketing to build on top of the success that we've had in providing that tremendous value to engineers is that we had to start making very concerted effort to understand the value of each individual developer and the companies that they work for. And so having an opinion and an insight and actionable analysis that we've done on our market allows that to pervade not only which companies were going to focus on from an enterprise standpoint, but ties our growth marketing and our growth function very tightly aligned with our account-based strategy. So, yeah, it makes a big difference.

Sarah E. Brown [00:10:36] I have to dig into the analysis piece. What data are you using and how are you using data to do that?

Daniel Day [00:10:42] Yeah, so I mean, if you just kind of pull back the onion on the number of companies that are in the United States alone, there's millions of companies operating in the United States. And so we could leave the development of our target market up to chance or we could do what many people do and use heuristics or go back and look at our success from the past and try to extrapolate where we want to go from the past, which is a good place to start. But really, we want to understand companies more contextually and understand just why they might be a great fit customer for rollbar. So one of the tools that we utilize most predominantly is the Intricately tool. I had a lot of success in utilizing that tool and Snowflake in getting past just some of the basic kind of demographic and firmographic information that's a dime a dozen that you can pull off the shelf anywhere. How it's different at Rollbar than at Snowflake was, you know, when we started doing our data analysis and insights at Snowflake, we had a pretty good enterprise customer base, a few hundred enterprise customers that were spending, you know, a sizable amount with us over a yearly basis. So we felt like we could start doing some modeling and get some insights on those customers. At Rollbar, we do have a sizable account list. You know, we have more than five thousand paying customers, but in the enterprise space, it's not quite as many. It's a good chunk of very sophisticated, very large enterprise customers that are using our service. But it's not something that I feel comfortable modeling on. Right. So using a tool like Intricately allows us to be really prescriptive about what makes a good Rollbar customer, a good Rollbar prospective customer, by trying to understand contextually what are the world's most sophisticated software companies. Right. We had a conversation today, whether it was retail or FinServ or insurance or purely tech software companies, all of the companies that we're selling to our technology and software companies because they're all building applications, which was kind of funny, but understanding like the underlying context of the developer tools and teams that they have the big data use cases that they're utilizing, the number of applications that they're developing, a number of domains that they're maintaining and that infrastructure, what use cases are they utilizing that infrastructure for? And then even a layer deeper is what is their cloud infrastructure look like? Right. So are they on premise, do they have a hybrid approach, are they utilizing hosting in their cloud for their applications? How much is their estimated cloud spend on a monthly basis? Right. When we break down the context of those millions of companies within the United States and start peeling back those layers and getting more specific and more context, you know, it goes from a millions of companies to hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands of companies to where we can pretty clearly define what I like to call our sales addressable market, because we can really only address the market that we have the resources to be able to reach. And so that sales addressable market is something like sixty five hundred accounts for us. And being able to go to your sales team and your growth team and whoever you're sharing data with and say, you know, you've narrowed the field down from millions of companies to the sixty five hundred prime suspects is a lot, right, to be able to do that and to do it with confidence. And to do it with data and to be able to say why you've done it and why you've made those decisions and why you chose in that direction is important.

Michael Pollack [00:14:50] You know, I just want to say for our audience, we did not encourage Daniel to say these wonderful things about our product. But you cannot see how much I'm smiling that he's saying that, that's the most wonderful thing to hear. So thank you for the kind words. I'd love to just zoom out for a second and just have like a conversation about data generally. And just as somebody who I think is kind of always at the leading edge in terms of thinking about data on the marketing side and somebody who comes from an ABM background where your orientation is obviously much more about data than gut. I'm curious for you just to talk about and maybe just share with our audience in your career or in the past decade how you've seen the evolution from maybe it's what you call legacy firmographic data or this kind of conventional data and the move to this very targeted contextual digital actual data. Does it change the way you think about marketing? Is that a quantum leap? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Daniel Day [00:15:45] Yeah, I think it does change because, you know, especially in the startup environment, the amount of resources that you have to put towards any challenge or problem is finite. You don't have unlimited resources. And so even if I go back five, six, seven years in marketing and want to think about, you know, using those firmographic and demographic type data points solely for our marketing campaigns, right, the level of insight and sophistication you have is like, for example, if you wanted to see, you know, how somebody was using an application performance monitoring tool or how somebody was using a tool for continuous code improvement, you might know that they have the tool, right, you don't know how much of a tool they have. You don't know what they're using the tool for, right, and when you get into these large Fortune 500 enterprise type companies that you really want to sell to, if you run any kind of query on the types of tools or the infrastructure they have, they have everything. If you look in these traditional kind of firmographic tools, they have everything. And it could be like one user on one team is utilizing Microsoft Azure, but they're really an AWS shop. But you don't have the context – it just says they're using Azure or they're using RedShift or they're using Snowflake. But you have absolutely no idea how much they're using or what they're using it for. So all of those companies get kind of clumped together in the same bucket when you have the ability to understand contextually, you know, how much of something they're using and what they're using it for and how that's changed over time.

Daniel Day [00:17:42] It gives you such a clear insight to be able to bifurcate and segment those targets in a way that's just not possible before. So certainly that has tremendous implications for account-based marketing and for marketing in general, but it helps to cross that chasm between marketing and sales as well when marketing stops being order takers and starts being data partners to bring those insights and analytics to bear in a way that wasn't possible before. So, yeah, it's changed tremendously.

Michael Pollack [00:18:17] On that point, I was talking to somebody who was not really in the tech space and I was trying to explain what you can do with contextual data. And you just think about the physical world that conceptually if you're a restaurant you want to attract people that are hungry. But if you had a certain kind of food you were selling, let's say, you're a pizza place and you want to find everybody who's craving pizza at this moment, that's a hard problem because the physical world, really isn't optimized for those kinds of, I don't know, like supply and demand matches. Right. But in the digital world, you can do that in a comment you made that I think is such a big one. And I just love your story because I know it from your time at Snowflake of really enabling marketing not only to understand where the demand is, but to work closely with their sales partners, to identify it and tee it up. And that is such a big deal. And I think that is the biggest innovation that I think has happened in marketing. And I imagine for you at Rollbar even, you're continuing that and taking it to the next level.

Daniel Day [00:19:17] It just seems so simple. And I've actually tried in the past to speak about it on a podcast or in other places, and they'd say, Daniel, I know that, I know that, like, clearly you need to have sales and marketing alignment or sales and marketing partnership. Can we just talk about the technology? I'd say to that, yeah, like everyone knows about it and thinks that it's a good thing, but why can't anyone do it? Well, nobody can do it because we don't spend any time speaking about it. And it's great that the technology and the insights and the data allows us to have that conversation and to bring something of value to the partnership. And it's about taking it a step further so you can have all of that contextual data. You can know who the best buyer for software is or you can know when somebody is hungry for pizza. That's great. But if you cannot explain it in a way or share it in a way that you can take action upon. That you can either build your next great account-based marketing campaign on or you can build your next prospecting campaign on, or you can choose where your sales campaigns and sales efforts are going to be this week, right now, when you sit down at your desk on a Monday morning, if you can't share the data and give the insights and the context in such a way that's digestible and that you're adding value to the data that you're sharing. That's where I think makes the difference. So marketers taking the time, one, to want to have a relationship, two: to want to partner, three, to understand the value they're bringing and have an opinion. I think one of the scariest things as a marketer, and I know from my time at Rollbar and certainly from my time at Snowflake is to have an opinion. So to be able to put that stake in the ground, say this is for better or worse, this is where we're starting off. This is where our partnership comes to bear. So like, for example, that sales addressable market of sixty five hundred accounts, I don't hand them the sixty five hundred account and say like there's piles of gold in this data, go figure it out, but it's like let's find out why each one of these accounts is special. Let's find out what context. Let's see how it maps to our value proposition. Let's see if we can figure out specific solutions or use cases for this customer or prospective customer based on data. And then I ask, I said go out into the field, you know, use your experience, use your expertise and come back and tell me if I was right. Tell me if I was wrong. There's way more data out there. So that feedback loop in that partnership helps us to improve things over time. But it's having that opinion and making those things actionable. And it's really important.

Sarah E. Brown [00:22:14] What you're getting at is really also disqualification and thinking about your sales addressable market and disqualifying companies, you know, are not going to be that gold, right.

Daniel Day [00:22:23] Right. You know, I'm certain that out of the nine hundred ninety five thousand companies that I've disqualified, that there are some winners in there. There's definitely things that we've missed, those things that we didn't think about. But we can't possibly be selling to those companies at the same time. If we have the confidence and the data insight to be able to focus our activities, we're going to win more often than not. And as long as we're winning more often than not and we're building confidence and trust in the things that we do, the more at bats we have, that feedback is going to help us to be better marketers and to refine our insight and to work with our data partners to continue to improve things. So I think everything is a process. And being able to find that starting point, to find the gumption to say this is where I'm starting, this is the jumping off point, allows you to go out there and to be vulnerable and to collect those opinions and to share those insights. And that was kind of, I think, the fearlessness that we needed to have to do something that nobody had tried to do before. And I think that's the difference, is understanding you have to get started and to find that spot. And if it's taking a million and turning it into six thousand and saving like innumerable amount of time trying to qualify or disqualify those accounts, I mean, you've taken it so, so so far from the back of the napkin, the five heuristics for the best fit account, and based it on data. And I think that's an important thing to do.

Michael Pollack [00:24:09] You know, there's a comment you made in there that I think is a huge deal and one that doesn't really get talked about enough, which is the role and the importance of disqualification. Sales by nature... people that are successful salespeople see every maybe as a chance to turn into a yes and every no, as a chance to turn into a maybe and then ultimately, a yes, right. That's just how salespeople have to be wired. And that's why salespeople, many of them are great at what they do. I believe the rise of technology over the past five or 10 years has put marketing in a position where their job is to almost overqualify, produce as many inbound opportunities as possible, which makes no sense, right, that in reality you want the smallest number of highest quality opportunities. But almost all the software that's built for marketing is more and more and more leads. You look at the rise of automated outbound email tools and it just create as many leads as possible. And I think it's a challenging partnership, and marketing, I agree with your point about having an opinion, having a voice and marketing says to sales you will get less leads, but they will be better. You don't want more leads, you want the best leads. And whatever is the right number of that, that's worth it. But it really takes a unique partnership between sales and marketing to agree to that and to facilitate that, because naturally in the salesperson's mind, I think a lot of times is a lead I don't get is a commission check I'm losing out on. Or something, something like that.

Daniel Day [00:25:34] No, it's absolutely the case. I mean, I can remember the first time we started to bring these account-based insights and analytics to bear it at Snowflake, it's scary and it's scary for the marketer not just for me, but for my team and my VP and my CMO and whomever, because you're flipping everything upside down on its head and you're saying by focusing on quality and by focusing on the right opportunities, that we're going to be more successful. Now, it helps to have like a world-changing product and to be at the forefront. But by focusing those efforts, it changes everything. And once people start to see success, whether like those phone calls are like a little less cold or their email gets responded to a little bit more quickly, or they have that first discovery call. And instead of five people being on the call, there's ten people being on the call and building a strong champion, once they see those things, and everything starts to click because it's not just the data, but what you do with it, right. That context allows you to build really specific, like I said, solutions or use cases or value propositions or knowing like the unique value that you're bringing to that particular organization or team. All of those things brought together allow you to do really amazing things. And it's super, super scary to do it. Like as a marketer, somebody would say to me, you know, if we're not successful doing this, you probably won't have a job. I won't have a job anymore. But you've taken food off of the table of your sales team. They depend on that commission to be successful. You're really like playing with fire here, right? But I think clearly that kind of insight and that focus, it can be very freeing. Of course, you have to figure out other ways to measure your success as a marketer and tie yourself more closely to the business, to pipeline and revenue and things that are less vanity type metrics, which is great to show that marketing has more intrinsic value to the organization than net new names and tools and numbers up into the right all the time. But yeah, it's a mind shift and one that I think arguably has been extremely successful that's been born out in the Snowflakes and UIPaths of the world.

Sarah E. Brown [00:28:01] For folks are listening to this show who know about what you've done at Snowflake, who see your success at other companies, including Rollbar, what advice would you have for someone who wants to step out on that ledge and embrace the power of data and become a data driven ABM marketer? How would you advise them to get started and do this?

Daniel Day [00:28:19] I would tell them to ask for forgiveness instead of asking for permission. So I hear all the time this isn't my responsibility or this isn't my purview or our company's not set up that way or we're not thinking in that way. I'd say start educating yourself, start understanding the data, take a trial, sign up for free, plug in, do whatever you can to educate yourself about the data, start making as many insights and trying to deliver as much value as you can. And you'd be so surprised that it was never, you know, the account-based marketing team or the demand generation team that was finding the most immense value in what we were doing. It was our sales counterpart. And the moment that they find value in it and not just differentiating themselves from the other sellers on the market, but there are so competitive among themselves, even within the same organization, is that they'll take every advantage that they can get to leapfrog and to put themselves first, like rightfully so, and being able to bring those things to bear and then starting to get like a little bit of inkling of value and insight and differentiation out of it and then them asking for more and you having to tell them that you can't give them anymore. I mean, that's not an option. That's like when phones start to get pick up, you know, suddenly you have budget for things that you didn't have budget for before.

Daniel Day [00:29:50] It's that partnership and starting to deliver value and then knowing that there's more to be unlocked there, finding that champion like within your own organization that wants you to bridge that gap and to be your partner, you can just do really wonderful things when you make a start. So it's not an all or nothing proposition. You have to kind of start with what you have.

Sarah E. Brown [00:30:13] Then we could talk to you all day. And I love hearing you speak. And selfishly, I would love to keep you on for hours. But I recognize you have a life, I'm sure, outside of talking to us. Before we take you out, is there any other sort of advice you would give to marketers, anyone else? You mentioned getting started with account-based marketing. Any advice for folks who are really new to this? I know you are a thought leader on the subject, so just shout out if you want to give any plugs to tips that you like to share.

Daniel Day [00:30:37] I think it's the human element of it. Right. So Mike alluded to before that marketers have so much technology at their fingertips that they can really smartly put data together. They think that they're doing it smartly and create automation and all kinds of very, very special ways to use the technology that almost can take us away from building those very personal relationships and partnerships. I'd say yes, like understand the data and understand the tools and the technologies and be able to use them to the best of your abilities. But it's no replacement for having a personal connection and a personal relationship with the team that you're responsible for partnering with. So having that go to market mentality or that revenue mentality and understanding that you're just different ends of the same team and think of when you. As technology, we start looking into data insight to understand the why you're doing it and who you're serving and what the purpose of what you're doing is, and start thinking and then more kind of altruistic fashion and really good things will happen.

Sarah E. Brown [00:31:52] Awesome. For folks who are interested in learning more about you and your work, where should we direct them to?

Daniel Day [00:31:58] Yeah, I think if you're more interested in learning about Rollbar in the work we do, check us out at www.rollbar.com.

Michael Pollack [00:32:06] Daniel, as usual, this was awesome, I think for our audience. I hope they enjoy this. There's obviously a lot to talk about on this topic. So maybe if we're lucky, we'll get you back on again. But I think a point you made that I would asterik, star, and emphasize is really around marketers not thinking like they're marketers, but thinking that they're part of the revenue ops team and that there's not sales and marketing, but there is a team that's trying to execute this thing and that the technology I find oftentimes gets in the way of actually understanding the customer problem and figuring out how do we fix it, how do we make it better. And then sales sells a piece of a marketing, has a piece of it. But I think that point is huge. And I think you talk through it so eloquently. And I would love to continue the conversation in the future. But for our audience, I think that point is a big one.

Daniel Day [00:32:52] Yeah, I would love to talk about it more in the future. I'll just say, when you understand that, you know, people on that broader revenue team, that they have special skills and insights that they bring to bear that together are really powerful and don't do as well when you don't share them with each other, when you understand, you know, the marketer can't pick up the phone or can't be out on the ground and having those meetings and you might be a technologist and a messaging wizard when you bring those things together is when the good things happen. So I think breaking down the walls and the silos and if you can use technology to do those things, you definitely should. But starting with the relationship and the purpose and what you're trying to achieve is really important.

Sarah E. Brown [00:33:41] Thank you so much, Daniel. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Sarah E. Brown [00:33:45] That's it for us. This episode may be over, but we continue the conversation on Twitter with the hashtag #SellingInTheCloud. On Twitter, I'm @SEBMarketing.

Michael Pollack [00:33:52] And I'm @MRPollack.

Sarah E. Brown [00:33:55] Thank you to everyone for joining us for this episode of Selling in the Cloud, brought to you by Intricately, the authoritative source of digital product adoption, usage, and spend data for cloud sales and marketing teams. If you like the show, head on over to iTunes or wherever you listen to podcast, and please give us a review. We appreciate it. Until next time.

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